To Sir, With What?
It is not like any other afternoon, this afternoon of Lahore. We are touching 50 degree Celsius here in the city. By all definitions of the word, it is hot. And me and my friend are on a motorbike, on the sweltering roads going from one place of work to another. The heat itself is enough reason to just sit put and stay quite and count the minutes. It is at this odd time that my friend, while still riding the bike, slightly turn his head and almost shouts out from within the helmet he is wearing, “Hey, do you know Salman Rushdie got the knighthood? Now that saab is a sir, haan?”
It must be the heat.
Salman Rushdie is a great writer and has practically invented a completely new genre of writing. But I am hardly the one who takes art for art’s sake. As far as I am concerned, art without due importance to subject matter is a waste of time and creative energy. But that is just me. This, on the other hand, is about governments.
First off, I think it is wrong. It probably does have a lot to do with the fact that I am a Muslim. Objectivity is assumed but not promised.
The knighthood of Salman Rushdie is wrong on two counts. The first count has to do with the fact that I am Muslim and Rushdie wrote, although in a very creative way, something that is just not my cup of tea. Or any other Muslim’s cup of tea for that matter.
Most Muslims consider Rushdie to be a heretic at best, and then seeing the British government praise him for the very thing that ticked about a billion people off will make it wrong on many fronts. Of course, had the British government awarded him knighthood for services in, say, the field of avionics or any other unrelated field, there wouldn’t have been such a turmoil. And turmoil is not blind to reason.
But awarding Rushdie the knighthood is also wrong from a very ‘secular’ point of view as well.
British being a democracy is already well aware that the most number of people being born in Britain are Muslim. (The name Mohammad is set to overtake James as the most common name in Britain this year). A democratic nation is bound by the choice of its majority and this is really an easy concept to get, right? Maybe the concept of making room for the minorities, starting with the large ones, is hard to grasp — I don’t know.
When people “complained” to the government that this knighthood further alienates an already tense Muslim population in Britain, here’s what the British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett had to say, “This is part of the pattern that people who are members of the Muslim faith are very much part of our whole wider community.” Well, sounds nice, given that Muslims are a large minority in Britain. But the niceness stops right about here.
What she probably forgets is that for most of the Muslim world, Salman Rushdie has ceased to be a Muslim quite some time back. Even if he is considered a Muslim by a large minority of Muslims, even then no one in his right mind supports what he so successfully did. In short, most Muslims think Mr. Rushdie is not a Muslim, or at best he is a very, very bad one. And then the British award him, and then they expect to get away with some talk about a “pattern that includes the Muslim community”? Which Muslims? Which community? Iran (the declared enemy) called the knighthood an “insulting, suspicious and improper act by the British Government in an obvious example of fighting against Islam.” While Pakistan (the declared friend) said that the act had “utter lack of sensitivity.”
Probably they are to include only the British Muslims community, and that would make sense, right? Right. But the same British Muslims that burnt Mr. Rushdie’s book when it came out in 1989 are not the kind of candidates that would, you know, get up and smell the pattern or whatever. Here is a message to the British government; “either tell the Muslims in Britain to leave in these simple terms, or start paying attention to what Muslims hold dear to their hearts.” It is quite simple, really. Come out clean. That is the way it should be.
Well for once i would agree and even the news are blaring the same thing..
Far more contemporary and well established writers exist and therefore to award a person an accolade with no superhuman knack for writing is in poor taste..
I thought the person who designed the IPOD deserved the knighthood or some other hood for that matter.. :)
Rushdie is not even living in England so how come he gets the cake and is able to eat it too
To sir with whatever! :)
I didnt find interesting what very little I have read of Rushdie. And I am also of the point of view that literature should have some direction, and a progressive one for that matter. I dont think his writings have any progressive tone, but that is just about my likings.
Well but what is this knighthood anyway? Is not it like tamgha-e-husn-e-qarqardagi, and we know many of the writers whom we do not like have got it. There is hardly any objectivity in these kinds of literature awards. But I still think that he got lucky because of the fame he got from satanic verses. But no one goes to street because a bad writer got an award.
As for the matter that he should have not been awarded since he hurt the sensibilities of muslims, well I can not agree with that. You can not ask them to impose some kind of sensor, because somebody is chosing a sesitive topic to write, specially since they are ok with someone chosing Jesus or anyone else as a metaphor in their novel. It would have been a dangerous precedence.
As for the fact that the actual decision was politically motivated, for example, to infuriate the muslims, and hence to get further support for a backlash against them, it may very well be possible, but its hard to figure out if this was the case.
I know he does not have any following in progressive circels who may have any credibility in my eyes, so what do I care what medal the queen endorses him with.
The muslim reaction is expected. If similarly any Christian (who has ever called Holocaust a hoax) is being awarded as a Sir (Knighthood) by Queen, I see Jews would definitely react to it too!
Rushdi nai paisay ziada diye hon gain :p
Muslim Mob Burns St George’s Cross On Streets Of London
Extremist British Muslims called for the Queen to “Go to Hell” as they burnt the flag of St George on the streets of London.
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=OL2238881G&news_headline=muslim_mob_burns_st_georges_cross_on_streets_of_london
I did the exact same post over at HuffingtonPost. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/momekh/to-sir-with-what_b_53251.html
Do go there and see the difference in responses as compared to the comments on this blog here. Culture, mindset and whatnot coming into play. :)
And now what, Pakistan’s biggest Islamic Scholars Council has awarded Bin Laden, the title of Saifullah (Sword of the Almighty!).
Here is an issue. A very sensitive one. The timing is totally wrong. It would be used by politically motivated extremists. To malign the image of the Muslims. To create unrest. To cause much more instability in volatile Islamic societies. Resulting in chaos, death and destruction. God save us!
@HM: Exactly and we as educated and bright minds should not lose our senses when facing situations like this and avoid igniting the fire more which obviously will result in uncontrolable chaos.
Every sermon in mosques in US/UK is filled with hatred for Christians, Jews, Hindus. You don’t want to address that, but want to shout and scream about SalmanR. You do have your priorities right.
I am thankful to OBL for 9/11. Earlier on only Indians knew about muslims, now the whole world knows.
Again, the summons won’t spread hatred about Jesus, Moses and Ram. Summons won’t target ‘Prophets’ of other religions. We criticize their post-prophet policies. We even target muslims for that too. And why we do that? Because we have our priorities right!
And again, why west shouts about holocaust if someone criticizes it as an Overreaction? Where does the freedom of speech goes then? Where go the priorities then? :)
I am thankful to Bush for 9/11. Earlier on only Americans knew about Zionists, now the whole world knows.
ting ting ting…
round two.
Really !!! I am from India and why do you think I care for zionism and all nonsense muslims keep trotting all the time about jews.
As far as I am considered, muslims in the west (I live in US and I lived in Canada too) are generally hated by Americans and Canadians and that hatred cuts across all race. Here talk radio shows makes jokes about muslims and pakistanis.
You muslims can better spend time how to gain respect back by west.
@TAMBI DUDE: foul. language. not. allowed.
I think OPEE in replying with significant aplomb I might add, has only sparred TAMBI DUDE on, a battle of wits almost.
But Tambi, dude! Chill.
Both of you generalizing like crazy. No, not every sermon is hate filled. OPEE, no, not all Sermons are based on reason and civility. Some sermons are way off the mark, some sermons do spread hatred. But not all, of course.
In my humble opinion, Tambi my friend, you just tried to judge a car by the driver. We Muslims are going through the lowest of the lows for a very valid reason, but that of course does not mean at all that what we claim to follow is not ‘all that’.
A little patience, and a little independent research, that is ALL that is required to ‘cut across all races’ AND religions and see what is correct.
Good luck and God bless us all…
Dear Momekh, All reports in US/Canada indicates that *majority* of mosques in North America preach hatred for non muslims. There are decent muslims who have themselves in the media.
You can spin any way you want, but there is no denying that islam’s problem lies in Quran and the hatred it preaches. Until you have the moral rectitude to accept that Quran is not the word of GOD and it has lost all its relevance in today’s world, you will remain a suspect muslims for all people in the west, self included.
All religions are man made nonsense. Other religions have evolved and their followers progressed. I am aware that Judaism holy book and Bible also preaches violence. Do Jews/Christians do that in daily life. Just look for muslims all around and see what they do daily. Hai Hai burning cars, buildings – all for what. Some non-existant allah.
I really can’t believe that in this day and age muslims actually believe that Allah exists and Quran is his word.
>have themselves in the media.
typo: have themselves said this in the media
It is safe to say that you hate us Muslims.
This is not a place to debate on the topics of the Quran, but you probably have an ayat (as many as you want) that you have lined up to show yourself as proof that Quran spread violence amongst Muslims etc etc.
I am just ashamed that your accusations are right that many so called Muslims fall for those ayats that are taken completely out of context.
But again, you are generalizing like crazy.
If you believe all religions are nonsense, that’s your choice of course. I just hope you are only a slight bit interested in finding some sort of Truth, some sort of Meaning to this Life and this World. I just hope that you have reached your decision of all religions being nonsense in an attempt of finding real Meaning in life. That is the only way to go, finding Meaning (I think). I am sure I have found Meaning in a religion that goes by the name of Islam. If you haven’t, again, that’s your choice. The least you can do is show some respect, I think, no? Anyways…
All your queries may have answers, but your allegations are surely uncalled for and probably can never be answered.
Good luck and God bless for sure.
And psst… keep it cool. People are sleeping here. *sigh*
Thank you.
Momekh,
“British being a democracy is already well aware that the most number of people being born in Britain are Muslim. (The name Mohammad is set to overtake James as the most common name in Britain this year). A democratic nation is bound by the choice of its majority and this is really an easy concept to get, right? Maybe the concept of making room for the minorities, starting with the large ones, is hard to grasp — I don’t know.”
Majority !!! – Since when muslims have become majority in Britain. You know what % of UK is muslim. Just 2.8%.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm#uk
this is 2001 census. I can max accept that the present population is 2.5-3%.
That said, your logic is very dangerous. Take India. Majority are hindus. If majority want all muslims in india be either killed or sent to Pakistan, will you accept that.
In Democracy, minorities are given respect. Just take a look at west. USA alone has more mosques than Churches in all muslim countries put together. We are talking about 50+ muslims countries where muslims are in majority. How many Churches you see there. Whatever little is left, it is being demolished. In Saudi Arabia no one can make a church or a temple.
>It is safe to say that you hate us Muslims.
It is safe to say that I hate trouble making muslims, which unfortunately are in large numbers. The problem is that decent muslims are just not doing anything about it. Look at pakistan. You guys are fighting with each other. Look at Iraq. Sunni, Kurds, Shias have killed much more than US led coalition force.
Tambi boy, whats the point?
>Tambi boy, whats the point?
Isn’t it obvious. Islam has been thoroughly exposed in the west as a barbaric primitive religion and muslims have no one else to blame but themselves for the mess they are in. In west they are close to being totally ostracized. I will tell you a real story of a pakistani friend I had in Toronto. When I moved to US I asked him why he is not trying a job in US where pays are better. He told that he was advised by a head hunter that with a name like Mohammed he will not have a good chance finding a job in USA. I would have gloated if not for the fact that he was a good man and a good friend of mine.
Hay Tambi. I hate no one. I hate extremism and people who jump into biased arguments with little knowledge of their surroundings (regardless they are muslims, hindus, christians). I respect all relegions, beliefs and you :) . Thats what i have to share, and you just shared, what you have.
Way off topic Tambi. Can somebody take his foot off this kid’s tail? I demand that have a sip of water. Its now safe to turn of your ‘puter! You still have your poke^mon bayblades to take care of! :)
I am in Canada. If I hear Canadians call anyone “Stinky Indian”, that doesn’t make me believe them!!
Tambi – Dude, all I can, is smile on your comments. :)
Every wiseguy knows, Media is responsible for barberic kinda projection. Why all hindus, sikhs and muslims go to Khawaja Ghareeb Nawaz’s darbar? or Golden Temple? in india?. U better go and ask one of hindu fellows …..gambi boy, all five fingers are not same. Dont be platnoic.
“Media is responsible for barberic kinda projection. ”
Correct. So when West pakistanis killed 3 million Bangladesis in 1971, media reported it and made west pakistanis look bad. Wah Wah kya logic hai.
What you are saying is that muslims can happily kill anyone (including other muslims) and no one should report them. This way islam can have a good name.
Get the cause and effect right. Media is reporting because muslims are indulging in killing and not the other way.
Who is going to bring Tombi boy a cold drink? kionkay pyas bujhi nahi, laagggiiiiiiiiiiii hoi hai.
Mujhe kuch dhundlay dhundlay say “Gujrat Riots” yaad aa rahay hain. But I think this is certainly not the topic that goes with it.
Monsieur Tambi, keep jumping from one logic to another of yours. Guys lets chill – I know you’ve already started ignoring this confused desi *also*! :) – and I think I should do that *also*. *Oblaye mee* :)
Gujarat riots – yeah. what’s so about it. Do we hindus deny it ever happened. nah. that would make us muslims. Only muslims deny what happens, like 9/11.
Since you want to stick to topics, why don’t u answer that why do muslims get an itch in their body if Salman Rushdie gets knighthood. Can’t you ignore him. You know back in early 1990s some guy in New York made a piss-christ – basically he put a cross in a bottle of urine. What happened? Americans went about their business. Compare this to cartoon riots last year. You muslims were killing each other and buring looting your own property. Lol. What sort of people will burn/loot their fellow citizens for what was done by some other person. Only muslims will do it.
I have no desire to take part in this forum any more. this is obviously for pakis like you. The world consider pakis as gaalis. Americans keep asking me “how come indians and pakistanis are same people, but india is so much ahead in education, economy.” I reply them in one word
“islam”. Islam is keeping pakistan backward. the day they throw out islam, that will be the day they will improve.
Thank you for not coming again on this forum.
I hope we had embraced Islam when he had the chance.
Khair… God bless us all, even the ones who don’t believe in Him to begin with. :)
Moving on…
Now where were we… :)
>Why all hindus, sikhs and muslims go to Khawaja Ghareeb Nawaz’s darbar?
Then it shows that hindus and sikhs are not narrow minded about religion. A better question will be how many muslims go to hindu temple of sikh gurudwara. My answer is close to zero. We muslims have always been taught to hate other religion.Remember the Pakistaniat taught in our school.
Maybe you hate others. I dont.
Respect is the key word here. Dont you think so?
I don’t hate, otherwise why would I point it out that Pakistaniat taught in our school is garbage.
The only people I hate is brain dead muslim bots who think they have taken the theka to discipline everyone.The relationship between a person and Allah is personal.We don’t have to make a show out of it. If I don’t believe in Allah,why should others (brain dead muslim bots) be annoyed by it.
Frankly I hated the loud azan cry belting out from Mosques during exam time. They had no concern for others.Also I hated ramzaan roza as it was forced on to me.
We muslims follow too much of dogmatism.
I got you Kashif Ansari.
I just know hate is not a solution..ulta it damages you and your mental and physical health :)
I got you Kashif Ansari.
I just know hate is not a solution..ulta it damages you and your mental and physical health :)
I got you Kashif Ansari.
I just know hate is not a solution..ulta it damages you and your mental and physical health :)
Pretty Simple,
Where do you live? I live in US. I love the freedom in this country. Here I can say to non muslim friends that I am not a practicing muslim, which anyhow they can make out when they see me eating during ramzaan. But with muslims I pretend being a namazee type so as not to annoy or offend them.
Each day I dread for some bad news from pakistan which will make me more sharminda in front of americans. How can I justify photos like this:
http://www.geocities.com/khola_mon/Pakistan/Pakistan
why are we pakistanis so concerned about Israel/Palestine problem. Do arabs support our kashmir cause. I have never seen them supporting. I hate arabs as they are rude to pakistanis. they consider us najis. Ask anyone who has gone for Haj.
I hope we pakistanis become more human by not politicalizing every issue.
The bascic principle of tolerance and peace has been taught by every religion in this world. And if anyone cannot respect others for their beliefs, he/she should not be respected of his/her ideas. We believe in Islam, its principles of peace, harmony and righteousness, we hate extremism, religious high-jackers and we respect people, including the ones that have been openly criticizing us for believing in what we strongly do.
*full stop*
Hasan,
Well said. Unfortunately most of the muslims can’t see anything beyond muslim ummah vs enemies of islam kinda nonsense. For them, anyone who does not agree with them is an enemy of islam. If I tell them I don’t pray or I eat during roza, I am an enemy of islam.
Look at today’s paper.
http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/jun-2007/27/letters2.php
This guys claims whole world is against islam.
http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/jun-2007/27/letters3.php
This guys claims britishers are against islam. What nonsense. if they were against how come they are allowing so many muslims to immigrate. How come, they are allowing so many mosques to be built where only hatred is preached. See that video of Abu Ijaaedeen preaching hatred in one of the british mosques asking muslims to hate jews, hindus and christians. To quote him “they are all kuffars and we muslims believe kuffars can never be innocent”.
Mr. Ansari, you are quoting from a letter and applying it to whom? What that guy said is wrong.
There is no concept of ‘hating’ any one in Islam.
There is a very basic, fundamental concept of being ‘aware’ of everyone, especially the non-Muslims, which I find to be truly essential and understandable.
Some Maulvi in a mosque preaching hate is bad, but it is nothing compared to official reports of think tanks that mark out Muslims who follow the basic ‘dogmatic’ (heh!) principles of Islam as people who need to be sidelined.
Officiating hatred is what the American policy makers have done. This is not present in UK, or Europe for that matter, to the best of my very limited knowledge (anyone else got a clue, lemme know).
Allowing Muslims to immigrate has nothing to do with anything really. The war is always fought on a ‘system level’, never individuals. What I practice is of no bearing, but what I want to change, through democracy even, is something that causes great ‘concern’.
“There is no concept of ‘hating’ any one in Islam.
There is a very basic, fundamental concept of being ‘aware’ of everyone, especially the non-Muslims, which I find to be truly essential and understandable.”
Sorry, ten years ago I would have believed all this. Today I see the true face of islam followed by almost all islamic countries. Either all of the m are wrong, or there is something wrong in islam itself. take the pick.
our beloved country Pakistan has an official policy of hating Qaidanis. Have you ever filled out a form for Pakistan passport. You have to sign a declaration in the form that you don’t consider Qaidanis to be muslims and Ghulam Mirza was an imposter nabi. If you want I can show you the PDF of that form. Why should every pakistani be forced to sign that declaration of hatred. Moreover what has that got to do with applying for a passport.
Secondly, why do we have laws against conversion. No muslim can ever convert out of islam. Aur phir kehta hain “deen mein jabar nahi hai”. Yeh jabar hee to hai.
When we don’t treat our own people well, how can we expect that we can treat others well.
There are no such laws in USA. Here freedom of religion is fundamental act. Anyone can convert to islam or opt out of islam. Sure, US has some foreign policies against the interest of muslims. That is a political issue. Why should US be concerened with any one else other than self interest. It is to be noted that when it helped US, they helped muslims. Like when Iraq attacked Kuwait in 1990 and US went out to help liberate Kuwait. Or when Soviet Union attacked Afghanistan in 80s.
Hatred and declaring Qadianis to be non Muslims? Do you even know what hatred means?
Friend, please do not mix what the people are saying about religion, rather try to find out what the religion is saying about itself! Read the Book, from the first page to last, then you can be in a position to at least attempt a judgment of this nature. Is not that fair?
And please, friend, where are you getting the idea that countries run religions? If American law allows you to do as you please with your religion, it wont matter as the religion decides what is demanded and what is not. Governments make laws and implement them. Almost all governments has chosen religion to take their law from.
And yes, many Muslims today need to live up to Islam. That by no means implies that Islam itself is bad. Again, I will repeat, a bad driver behind the wheels of a Porsche should not lead you to conclude that the Porsche is a bad car (which sure as hell it ain’t :) )
Dear Momekh,
You take me for a fool. You think I don’t know what is going on in Pakistan against Ahmediyas. The passport example was just an example. A simple google search on “ahemdiyas pakistan persecution” tells me this:-
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&p=ahmadiyya+pakistan+persecution&SpellState=n-495823800_q-3bfXSjEIzTS8BxNYyhVDOgAAAA%40%40&fr2=sp-top
If you are implying that Ahmediyas are not hated in pakistan, then we are not on same page. Forget Ahmediyas, what about Shia Sunni. Do you think all the bomb blasts which is happening in Pakistan between Shias and Sunnis is out of love and not hatred. I was terribly disappointed that number of muslims killed in India is less than number of muslims killed in Pakistan. Ab kar lo baat.
And I am not even talking about what happened in 1971 is erstwhile east pakistan.
You have not answered my question. Why is that in every islamic country, muslim do not have freedom of choice in religion. Why can’t muslims opt out of islam. If islam welcomes other people joining islam (which they do all the time by dawah), why not allow its people to move out of islam. Why the road is one-way street. Anyone who does is threatened with dire consequences. I know plenty of muslims including pakistanis who have renounced islam but never say it to their friends and relatives for fear of backlash. Few of them tell it to the media and they pay the price socially.
I am also amused by your repeated reference to car Porsche logic. How do you arrive at the conclusion that Islam is like a Porsche car. The comparison is valid if and only if you can prove that Islam is like Porsche. Until you prove it, it is merely your assumption.
Will you like it if I start assuming that Islam is like cars made by Habib motors.
Welcome back Tambi Dude AKA Kashif! :)
last year when cartoon controversy was happening I was talking to a pakistani who was offended by the cartoons. He was also annoyed that I did not show any interest and worse I said I don’t care about it. He tried to give an analogy “If someone insults your father will you keep quiet”. My response was “if my father is a wife beater, child beater and also does a thief, do I have to necessarily support him”. That’s it. he never spoke to me after that.
I am not saying that Islam is like the father I mentioned above, but one should think twice before using random analogies like this. Supporting or not supporting anything should be on a case to case basis, based on right or wrong. Not a blanket support just because someone is a muslim.
Neither it should be a blanket ‘hate-all’, or ‘all-wrong’.
But don’t let this stop you. Carry on.
Can somebody give this guy a piece of mind? Ya Rab Woh na Samjhay thay, Na Samjhain gay Meri Baat. Day Aur Dil Un ko, Jo Na Day Mujhko Zubaa’N Aur.
*Oowain, Oowain* “”"I have no desire to take part in this forum any more.”"” *Oowain, Oowain* “”"I just always get off topic and go way too far”"” *Oowain, Oowain* “”"I Just can’t help it”"” *Oowain, Oowain*
blahblah, blah blah-flah blamby-pamby blang-blang-blang blang-whang bleak-bleak blew-blaw blib-blab blibberblabber
I just don’t know anything about whats going on in Pakistan, I just pretend everything as if I know everything by searching it on Google.
I have no idea what I have to talk about and I always bring Cartoon Controversey in between.. I don’t know about what Cartoon controversey is and I relate prophet with talibans.
blibber-blubber blink-blonk, plink-plonk blish-blash blitter-blatter bloop soup blue-blaw, blew-blaw bob flop bob mop bob pop bob-bob bobshop bobtop SLANG bogey-bogey boho bolus-nolus bon-bon bong song bong-bong boo-boo bube tube
Every youth in this forum is telling me that Islam never hates any other religion but why do I keep forcing as if I know everthing and when I don’t have even a lill clue about what respect is given in Quran about non-muslims..
I just keep boogie-woogie boohoo book-gook boola-boola booloo boomboom boozy-woozy bopper-topper boris noris borus-snorus boubou, bum chum bum
I’m just being numb bum-bum bump-bump bunch punch bunya-bunya butt-shut buz fuz buzz-buzz
bye-bye1 bye-bye2
Bye bye for always!
*owain again* :)
:)
Another bongi.. duhhh!!
lol..after you.
:D