Valiant Lawyers of Our Nation, We Salute Thee…

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26 Comments so far

  1. Saba (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 8:18 am

    Whats there to salute these lawyers ?? Will they fight to protect your borders?

    They are just in it because of the CJ who himself is not innocent in the whole matter..so let not make a hero out of him.

    Its all politics..


  2. Serepticus (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 9:05 am

    Motivated…yes.
    Valiant… NO!

    I second saba! Eik reporter/lawyer ko haath lagta hai to eik week tack uss par media rota hai. A soldier dies and he gets a 5 second scroller at the bottom of the screen while the news of an SOB maulvi claiming that the namaz-e-jinaza of these soldiers is not allowed in Islam is aired fully blown! It’s all a politically motivated move and its ALL paid for!

    The govt has made mistakes and I guess the biggest one being that they forgot to ‘buy’ the media! Naturally it had to go to the highest bidder!

    Stop leaning towards one end. If the govt is being unfair, inn lawyers ko bhi koi surkhaab ke parr nahi lagay hoay!


  3. Hasan Mubarak (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 10:01 am

    Aren’t these the same people who take advantage of people in legal trouble and drag their cases for decades while sucking millions out of their pockets…?


  4. Neena (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 10:03 am

    Saba so how Army is not “protecting the borders”. Last I check Borders are controlled by some fanatics produced by a Army lord General Zia.


  5. Neena (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 10:03 am

    Saba so how come Army is not “protecting the borders”. Last I check Borders are controlled by some fanatics produced by a Army lord General Zia.


  6. Serepticus (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 10:17 am

    @ Neena. I would respectfully disagree with you. Who said the Army is NOT protecting the borders of our country? Isn’t there an internal threat of extremism now within Pakistan to protect from as well? As for the fanatics produced by Gen Zia, these very fanatics were actively cheered and supported by our very own nation at one time too. Why did we not protest then when they were in the making? Why should the army be the only one blamed for their progress? I humbly request we don’t drag army in the debate of govt vs lawyers. The current president is already doing a superb job of doing that with his every decision. Neither the lawyers nor the govt is innocent here. Let the army be. The fact that they follow orders of the high command does not mean the same as they are his/her pet. Please be patient. Time will tell.


  7. suh (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 10:30 am

    these people deserved their beating

    they are from the most corrupt institution in pakistan.


  8. Serpico (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 11:23 am

    The most corrupt institution in Pakistan is Education as claimed by some minister (Dawn 1 nov i guess).
    How can one put a Govt vs. Lawyers debate without including Army?
    Or are you people suggesting that our Parliament is STRONG ENOUGH to have legal and moral Government itself? I think not.


  9. Manvendra Begerhotta (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 11:25 am

    Lawyers of Bikaner fully support our fellow Lawyers in Pakistan!


  10. libertarian (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 11:49 am

    for the saba’s, surreptitious’, suh’s, hasan mubarak’s and mir jaffar’s of Pakistan
    when people stop feeling others pain( irrespective of who they are)..
    they become dead souls walking this earth…there is a name for such and that is sheep+people= sheeple
    for those who encounter such people citing extremism
    as a cause for the dictatorship today quote them this….

    ‘They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.’

    also these ‘enlightened’ people are aware of hermann goering who said before ww2…regarding ‘sheeple’
    ‘after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

    as to those who say ‘ they deserve this’…
    there is a story about a pastor in America who narrated
    ..’they came for the commies in the 50’s, I stood and watched…they came for the blacks in the 60’s , I stood and watched…now they come for me, is there nobody who will help me…

    to quote thomas paine …read about him…

    ‘He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. ‘

    so till the day this fire reaches your house just sit in and wait…

    and the best of them for the end…this is what you have become…
    ‘A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right’

    RESTORE THE REPUBLIC!!
    RESTORE THE CONSTITUTION!!
    OR…
    WAIT FOR A REVOLUTION!!


  11. Fauzan (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 12:01 pm

    @ Serpico: How can one put a Govt vs. Lawyers debate without including Army?

    By realizing that the Army is not at all interested in running governments… a certain general and a certain political party is my friend :)! I’ll give you a very sincere example. The ISPR spokesperson Gen Waheed Arshad is a coursemate of my father and is indeed a very competent officer. Unfortunately, he does not have the skill set of a spokesperson. He has a superb command over logistics but he is not the suitable candidate to face the media or the camera. i don’t need to go in to any lengths to explain how because it has been seen by all. The bottom line is that he is not being utilized for what he is actually worth. He’s been assigned to do a job and he is doing it. Politics and Govt are for politicians… as corrupt as they might be. Army has better things to do than to be dragged in to this mess. I fully support a move to pull Army out of this hell hole myself. So yes, do talk about the Army in relation with the Govt and Lawyers but please do keep in mind the fact as to who is controlling who. I can not stress enough that its not as easy as 1-2-3 to remove or (as many here have put it) ‘get rid’ of an active Chief of Army Staff. It will result in an internal divide within the army that no lawyer/politician/maulvi/student/what have you will be able to resolve. Let things unfold. The president is indeed playing his best (if not final) hand now. Let’s see how the cookie crumbles.


  12. Babar (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 12:38 pm

    Pak army can not defend our borders. They put their hands up at the first sight of arms in the hands of opponents. Remember 71 , Cargil and 2003 when musharraf personaly begged Vajpai. Heck they even throw arms at the hands of a few shalwar wearing Talibans.


  13. Fauzan (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 3:52 pm

    @ Babar. It is one thing to read news clippings or see images and movies of your so called incompetent Pakistan Army. It is yet another to sit in the comfort of your home and type away on your computer. It is a COMPLETELY different thing to actually do what these people do day and night to keep you safe from those who seem to be your best friends but pray for nothing but to see your country crawling! I’d humbly request you to not merely throw such strong words without being in their shoes to begin with. As for throwing arms at the hands of a ‘few’ shalwar wearing Taliban, could you please enlighten me HOW many amount to few in your logic? If people hate their army so much then I guess the Army should step aside from all areas where extrimism /talibanism is being enforced and move back to the borders with their back towards what ever happens inside Pakistan. Let those FEW taliban roam in the streets of Karachi and Lahore and tell you and your sisters/daughters/mothers how to live their lives. Let them walk in to your house and tell you that since your sister is now at the age that she can get married so you should marry her to the so and so maulvi of the so and so masjid (YES that has happened in your dear old Swat by the way). Let them govern us all :) Who is gonna stop all that. You?


  14. Farrukh (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 3:56 pm

    @Serepticus

    Army has indeed lost their credibility in front of pakistanis. army’s real heroes, the martyrs are still in heart of ppl with full respect but what you army have given us apart from them? lost battles of 65 and 71? shame at kargil and kashmir? dictators like zia and musharaff? getting percentages out of civil money and civil job and land oppertunities? calling us bloody civilians? playing knockout with superme court?

    Yes, if that is the face of army, then i think they even dont deserve a scroller at the bottom of screen.


  15. Farrukh (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm

    Each lawyer they bring in, the police get 5000 bucks and for each protester (civilian) army pays 1000 rupees.

    This is best econo-incentive relationship i have seen ever. Shame!

    That explains the brutal and animal bahavoir of policemen these days blinded by comissions.


  16. Fauzan (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 4:13 pm

    @ Farrukh: My friend, I’d love to see the source of this information that you have just shared with us all regarding the fixed rates of bringing a civilian or a lawyer.

    Secondly, please remember every snowflake in an avalanche is merely a snowflake… pleading non-guilty. Don’t judge the institution based on merely history and the doings of a few men at the top :) There is more than what meets the eye. It is indeed disappointing to see there are still people who believe in equal rights despite any restrictions put forth and yet uphold the rule that a dead soldier shouldn’t even get a scroller and a beaten up civilian should be a celebrity :)


  17. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 5:15 pm

    An Interesting FT’s article on Army’s credibility.

    tinyurl.com/3xmwhf


  18. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 5:18 pm

    @Hasan Mobarak: Mian jab Away ka aawa he bigra huwa ho tu khali Lawyers per ungli uthana kahan ka insaaf hay?


  19. Neena (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 6:07 pm

    Serepticus,

    Don’t talk into circles – IF Army was protecting the borders we weren’t having this problem but one person can’t do two jobs. Our Army first lost half of the country and created Bangladesh and now they even can’t control the areas between Afghanistan an Pakistan. About not protesting in Zia’s time, I guess you were very young, people protested and there were public hangings and lashings. The hypocrite Zia sends his kids to the American schools and helped his family to be settled in the US and for his awam to dislearn everything besides killing, wow he really did give Islam a real boost.

    BTW what is done is done now Musharaff was doing the good by modernizing the society but he need to come over the radicalized factor in the Army and likes of Ijaz ul Haq in his government who publicly said suicide bombing is service to Islam.

    BTW Emergency was necessary to control these fanatics who are spreading to our cities. I too have reservations about these developements (Pak flags removed from Taliban-held areas in Swat) and these things don’r just happen in a day someone inside the government were backing them.


  20. babar (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 6:15 pm

    @Fauzan
    Or yet better the army should be dismantelled completely. Who needs an army sitting in the barraks waiting for the next qou. A totaly new force should be constituted which is completely under the civilian control and does not have such huge vested interests.
    Your concern for pulling the army out of this mess is well taken. But my concern is that people of Pakistan should decide which mess to send army in and which mess to pull it out from. Doesnt look like you still endorse this simple basic priciple. Somehoe you too beleive that Army is an independent player.
    I know what I am talking about should be labelled as completely out of touch with ground realities but at times you just cant help but wish for the things to go the way they are meant to be.
    Regards.


  21. Neena (unregistered) on November 8th, 2007 @ 6:55 pm

    Yet after eight years in power with virtually no restraints, Pakistan’s military has done little to quash discontent in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.

    In that time, domestic terrorism has increased. Foreign and homegrown jihadis flocked to sanctuaries in northwestern Pakistan, where al-Qaeda and a resurgent Taliban plot and prepare for a comeback. Read More here

    BTW what brainless MMA is saying baout all this, they are as much responsible of this destruction than anyone else.


  22. Fauzan (unregistered) on November 9th, 2007 @ 3:53 pm

    @ Babar/Neena. I don’t think I have been talking in circles at all. You have your point of view and I have mine and what I am glad to see more than any thing else is that we respect each others views :) Who is right and who is wrong is not as important as us all behaving as responsible and literate people. I would still maintain that the Army needs to be understood as not the one leading this Emergency but actually being ‘used’ by certain factions to achieve their goals. Pakistan Army is not the first one to let terrorists slip through their borders my friends. It happens all around the world. True though that we have more to deal on our platter than probably any one else right now because we have threats from inside as well as outside.

    I’d request once more to please not see the Pakistan Army as traitors and an incompetent force that needs to be dismantled. Do you know how our soldiers feel when they are touted as cowards and incompetent? Have you ever tried to take their interview instead? Not a general but a simple soldier? A contingent of them who have come back from Swat was in Chaklala Cantt last night and they had tears in their eyes. They had a set back with the order to move back and ‘give’ ground to those militants. Couple that with the fact that the very people they were trying to protect (us all) are the one’s who hate them more than the ones they are fighting. For God’s sake, they are humans too… they are not invincible! Don’t just see them in the light of an enforced emergency that has been put in to practice by a General that has over stayed his tenure as the Chief of Army Staff.

    Why protest against the Emergency only? If you feel those militants in Swat are wrong then why not protest against them as well?


  23. Neena (unregistered) on November 9th, 2007 @ 7:15 pm

    Fauzan,

    Who said Soldiers are responsible for this mess? It’s the high command, the generals and majors. Who are taking over civil institutions and running them ON DUTY. I can understand the greed is the major factor here, but come on how they can do two jobs at once. Of course, the result is they suck at their both jobs (one is duty and other is reward) just like the Mushie.

    PS. It’s giving Punjab a bad name as most officers happen to be from Punjab province. Iknow the difference but common men don’t.


  24. Fauzan (unregistered) on November 10th, 2007 @ 12:41 am

    Neena, I would fully agree with you on this. I too believe that the Army is not there to run the civil govt and I gave the example of Gen Waheed Arshad to prove just that. Even if they have to come in to support the country in any form or manner, their tenure should be short and effective with focus on quick and smooth transition to a civil government. Unfortunately, there are still people who believe that the entire institution of Pakistan Armed Forces down to the very soldier is to blame for all this. It is to them that I request to broaden their horizon and see the big picture. I apologize if I misunderstood your premise per say :)

    At the end of the day, we ALL want Pakistan to prosper. We all want it to be a safe and secure homeland. We are going through a really crucial phase in the history of our nation and insha Allah, we ALL will see it through… one way or the other (Ameen).


  25. bluemax (unregistered) on November 10th, 2007 @ 5:25 pm

    If lawyers are sincere this time around then they should first be honest with their clients. They should stop asking for bribes from both parties and stop requesting the judges for more time (read next PESHEE) to drag cases for years. And if there are only a few black sheeps in the lawyer community then the good ones should stand up against the bad ones. First fix yourself, then your community, then your country, and then the whole world. Not the other way round.


  26. Babar (unregistered) on November 11th, 2007 @ 6:20 am

    @ Fauzan, we want to respect our army as all proud nations do and not only soldiers but also competent generals too. But Army has to obey the constitution and perform their assigned duties to earn that respect. Its very simple. Ever wondered why the army in USA is not criticized, though the wars in vietnam and Iraq are? Because they just do what they are told to. I never criticized big bunglowes of Army officers as I beleive who else deserves high rewards than those who risk their lives. But the point is that it should be the nation allocating those high rewards for them ( and I would advocate even more than what they get right now) and not the army to decide what goes where, otherwise , sorry to be blunt , they give the impression of thugs, especialy since they are armed. Actually I am quite surprized why the core commanders are not thinking about their respect in the current situation? Or is it that they are bound by the dicipline? But they have meetings, how can Musharraf ignore their dissent, if there were any?



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