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	<title>Comments on: Lahorites respond vehemently</title>
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		<title>By: kaami</title>
		<link>http://lahore.metblogs.com/2009/02/25/lahorites-respond-vehemently/comment-page-1/#comment-12369</link>
		<dc:creator>kaami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lahore.metblogs.com/?p=3004#comment-12369</guid>
		<description>@tperacha
I will respond to the second part of your post first. The amazing yellow cab scheme the brain child of one of the most corrupt bureaucrats of this country (now in Zardari bandwagon) given the seal of approval by Nawaz was worst than a ponze scheme. It brought our financial institution to their knees and turned them into taxi dealerships albeit lots of sales and no income. And if a leader finds his weekly drive to a getaway very uncomfortable via the G.T. road and acting like the kings of the bygone orders a lavish alternate to be built, ofcourse there will be benefits, but whats the vision in that? and when criticism mounts you draw lines to extend that road here and there, what great planning. It was also a strange coincidence that &quot;Korea / Daewoo&quot; was the common factor in all such &quot;Ponze Schemes&quot;. Indeed a great economic model to follow and being taught in the universities around the world. As for the nuclear testing, go ask anyone one who was close to corridors of power at that time about Mr. Sharif&#039;s &quot;halat&quot;  and how finally he was pushed into it. Then again my friend the quality of leadership is not judged by doing the popular thing but by the courage of doing whats right.

Speaking of courage lets talk about BB for a second, I didnt like her nor do I like her party ( I consider them equally responsible for the demise of the left in this country) but, no doubt she was headstrong and brave and stood upto the establishment. On the contrary, Mr. Sharif is probably the only political leader in Pakistan&#039;s history, who did not appeal against a lower court decision, who chickened out in prison, begged for a pardon and left with Saudis, leaving his supporters in doldrums. Now, he complains here and there but the fact remains that when you ask for a presidential pardon, its an automatic admission of guilt and though your sentence may be reduced or waived but your conviction stands. The late Z.A. Bhutto preferred to be beaten to death in his cell (before being hanged) but refused to sign a document asking for pardon from Zia-ul-Haque. Nobody even touched Mr. Sharif, ok may be a push or shove.

As for Mr. Imran Khan. For me, he and his party eventually turned out to be a glorified version of Jamaat-e-Islami. An Islamist product catering for the needs of the up-market, targeting institutions like LUMS and FAST. Nothing more and nothing less, same philosophy and same ideology as of A-l-Banna and Moudoodi. In the present context their top priority is to provide cover and justification for the broader Jihaadi cause. Again what I have noticed about Mr. Khan, is his disappearing act when a crisis seems to be reaching its climax he is no where to be seen and when finally he took some initiative he was beaten up by his own friends, who he went to rally and still piggy backs. With the advent of free media in Pakistan (again thanks to Mushrraf) you can be a brilliant talk show politician and raise the rhetoric as much as you like, you just need Hamid Mir / Shahid Masood to provide you with air time. But its another thing to deliver.... and to the credit of cynical, eccentric joker Altaf, his is the only party in the country with delegation of responsibility / power concentrating on improving the lot of their vote bank.

Now, to the second part of your post, you asked about democracy and, in the light of my above rant it would be a pertinent question i.e., &quot;If no one then who?&quot;

Frankly, I am not too optimistic about the future, I was very hopeful a year and a half back. We had a golden chance to implement the Turkish or Malaysian model. Yes things were not perfect but all the elements were in place. A strong leadership in centre, influx of talent and money, resurrection of financial system, recognition of merit driven by the surge in private enterprise. On the side tooti phooti political process was also in place, elections were being held and I saw some fresh new go getters emerging out of Punjaab  and other provinces. We should have continued with the sidelining of the tried, tested and useless political lot and eventually replace it with the emerging middle class. We needed 5 years more of continuation. But we choose Suo motto destabilization, parallel governance and misplaced sympathies for jihaadi cause over all that. 

Now I see a great divide, as I suspected Qazi Sahib has jumped in, they might prop up Muslim League but for a price. On the other hand Karachi and Sindh are in no mood to join this holy alliance and the millitary is watching but this time I think they will let them slug it out.......

We are going to the dogs my friend....we are going to the dogs and there is no one to blame but us.

Ahhh....enough ranting for a day!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tperacha<br />
I will respond to the second part of your post first. The amazing yellow cab scheme the brain child of one of the most corrupt bureaucrats of this country (now in Zardari bandwagon) given the seal of approval by Nawaz was worst than a ponze scheme. It brought our financial institution to their knees and turned them into taxi dealerships albeit lots of sales and no income. And if a leader finds his weekly drive to a getaway very uncomfortable via the G.T. road and acting like the kings of the bygone orders a lavish alternate to be built, ofcourse there will be benefits, but whats the vision in that? and when criticism mounts you draw lines to extend that road here and there, what great planning. It was also a strange coincidence that &quot;Korea / Daewoo&quot; was the common factor in all such &quot;Ponze Schemes&quot;. Indeed a great economic model to follow and being taught in the universities around the world. As for the nuclear testing, go ask anyone one who was close to corridors of power at that time about Mr. Sharif&#8217;s &quot;halat&quot;  and how finally he was pushed into it. Then again my friend the quality of leadership is not judged by doing the popular thing but by the courage of doing whats right.</p>
<p>Speaking of courage lets talk about BB for a second, I didnt like her nor do I like her party ( I consider them equally responsible for the demise of the left in this country) but, no doubt she was headstrong and brave and stood upto the establishment. On the contrary, Mr. Sharif is probably the only political leader in Pakistan&#8217;s history, who did not appeal against a lower court decision, who chickened out in prison, begged for a pardon and left with Saudis, leaving his supporters in doldrums. Now, he complains here and there but the fact remains that when you ask for a presidential pardon, its an automatic admission of guilt and though your sentence may be reduced or waived but your conviction stands. The late Z.A. Bhutto preferred to be beaten to death in his cell (before being hanged) but refused to sign a document asking for pardon from Zia-ul-Haque. Nobody even touched Mr. Sharif, ok may be a push or shove.</p>
<p>As for Mr. Imran Khan. For me, he and his party eventually turned out to be a glorified version of Jamaat-e-Islami. An Islamist product catering for the needs of the up-market, targeting institutions like LUMS and FAST. Nothing more and nothing less, same philosophy and same ideology as of A-l-Banna and Moudoodi. In the present context their top priority is to provide cover and justification for the broader Jihaadi cause. Again what I have noticed about Mr. Khan, is his disappearing act when a crisis seems to be reaching its climax he is no where to be seen and when finally he took some initiative he was beaten up by his own friends, who he went to rally and still piggy backs. With the advent of free media in Pakistan (again thanks to Mushrraf) you can be a brilliant talk show politician and raise the rhetoric as much as you like, you just need Hamid Mir / Shahid Masood to provide you with air time. But its another thing to deliver&#8230;. and to the credit of cynical, eccentric joker Altaf, his is the only party in the country with delegation of responsibility / power concentrating on improving the lot of their vote bank.</p>
<p>Now, to the second part of your post, you asked about democracy and, in the light of my above rant it would be a pertinent question i.e., &quot;If no one then who?&quot;</p>
<p>Frankly, I am not too optimistic about the future, I was very hopeful a year and a half back. We had a golden chance to implement the Turkish or Malaysian model. Yes things were not perfect but all the elements were in place. A strong leadership in centre, influx of talent and money, resurrection of financial system, recognition of merit driven by the surge in private enterprise. On the side tooti phooti political process was also in place, elections were being held and I saw some fresh new go getters emerging out of Punjaab  and other provinces. We should have continued with the sidelining of the tried, tested and useless political lot and eventually replace it with the emerging middle class. We needed 5 years more of continuation. But we choose Suo motto destabilization, parallel governance and misplaced sympathies for jihaadi cause over all that. </p>
<p>Now I see a great divide, as I suspected Qazi Sahib has jumped in, they might prop up Muslim League but for a price. On the other hand Karachi and Sindh are in no mood to join this holy alliance and the millitary is watching but this time I think they will let them slug it out&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>We are going to the dogs my friend&#8230;.we are going to the dogs and there is no one to blame but us.</p>
<p>Ahhh&#8230;.enough ranting for a day!</p>
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		<title>By: tperacha</title>
		<link>http://lahore.metblogs.com/2009/02/25/lahorites-respond-vehemently/comment-page-1/#comment-12368</link>
		<dc:creator>tperacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lahore.metblogs.com/?p=3004#comment-12368</guid>
		<description>@kammi-

I truly enjoy your comments. I may not agree with most of the things you say, but I certainly find them very thoughtful. But here is my question to you. Do you believe in democracy? If yes, then we have to pick the lesser of the 2 evils and in my mind, there is simply no doubt that Mian is much better Zardari/Altaf/or others out in power now. Ideally I would like to Imran to be in power, but I know that’s not going to happen. He is too honest and brutal and that doesn’t work in politics.

As to what Mian did in his past tenures. I know they were from perfect and especially during his second term he became more of a dictator, but he did come up with yellow cab scheme, opened the motorway, and who can forget the nuclear testing. For me personally, later was the highlight of his time in the office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@kammi-</p>
<p>I truly enjoy your comments. I may not agree with most of the things you say, but I certainly find them very thoughtful. But here is my question to you. Do you believe in democracy? If yes, then we have to pick the lesser of the 2 evils and in my mind, there is simply no doubt that Mian is much better Zardari/Altaf/or others out in power now. Ideally I would like to Imran to be in power, but I know that’s not going to happen. He is too honest and brutal and that doesn’t work in politics.</p>
<p>As to what Mian did in his past tenures. I know they were from perfect and especially during his second term he became more of a dictator, but he did come up with yellow cab scheme, opened the motorway, and who can forget the nuclear testing. For me personally, later was the highlight of his time in the office.</p>
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		<title>By: dare2dv8</title>
		<link>http://lahore.metblogs.com/2009/02/25/lahorites-respond-vehemently/comment-page-1/#comment-12367</link>
		<dc:creator>dare2dv8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lahore.metblogs.com/?p=3004#comment-12367</guid>
		<description>@tperacha: Sincere to who &amp; to what? Only thing he&#039;s been sincere to is that Raiwind estate &amp; his balding head----both of which he&#039;s taken care of very well. I&#039;m not here to argue with you. You like Mian--fine by me--that&#039;s your choice. But tell me one thing: while your Mian has all those &#039;&#039;daighs&#039;&#039; cooking in H-block Model Town (which are all fed to his cronies) and the common man in Lahore struggles to eat just ONE meal---are you ok with this scenario? Where is his sincerity now? You&#039;re not a successful leader until and unless the comman man is not provided for. To take from kaami&#039;s comments--hiring and re-hiring the same thieves is only going to dig this country&#039;s grave deeper. 

We need to stop looking at this from our point of view...and stop being sucked into the fallacy the media creates. You all know those &quot;5000&quot; were allured and bribed to do all that. For once, just look at it from the common man&#039;s point of view--the REAL common man. And plz...the average Pakistani is not someone in that Honda Civic---he&#039;s the guy on foot. Accept that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tperacha: Sincere to who &amp; to what? Only thing he&#8217;s been sincere to is that Raiwind estate &amp; his balding head&#8212;-both of which he&#8217;s taken care of very well. I&#8217;m not here to argue with you. You like Mian&#8211;fine by me&#8211;that&#8217;s your choice. But tell me one thing: while your Mian has all those &#8221;daighs&#8221; cooking in H-block Model Town (which are all fed to his cronies) and the common man in Lahore struggles to eat just ONE meal&#8212;are you ok with this scenario? Where is his sincerity now? You&#8217;re not a successful leader until and unless the comman man is not provided for. To take from kaami&#8217;s comments&#8211;hiring and re-hiring the same thieves is only going to dig this country&#8217;s grave deeper. </p>
<p>We need to stop looking at this from our point of view&#8230;and stop being sucked into the fallacy the media creates. You all know those &quot;5000&quot; were allured and bribed to do all that. For once, just look at it from the common man&#8217;s point of view&#8211;the REAL common man. And plz&#8230;the average Pakistani is not someone in that Honda Civic&#8212;he&#8217;s the guy on foot. Accept that.</p>
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		<title>By: kaami</title>
		<link>http://lahore.metblogs.com/2009/02/25/lahorites-respond-vehemently/comment-page-1/#comment-12366</link>
		<dc:creator>kaami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lahore.metblogs.com/?p=3004#comment-12366</guid>
		<description>Mian jee owes quit a lot to a lot of people. He owes his sustanence to Saudi&#039;s, who on Abba jees request took him in and later abducted him too. So what it is like when the prince gives him a call? Not ignoring the fact its the Saudi&#039;s who played a major role in wrecking this country.

Never mind his collossal corruptness, lets say that he is sincere, but, what we do about his legendary stupidity, indecision, shaking legs and dumbness, haven&#039;t you heard &quot;Nadaan dost se dana dushman behter hai&quot; (A wise enemy is better than stupid friend). One day he is with Khar, the other day with Qazi, then with BB and later with Aitzaz. Now he is patching up with Q-League and MQM. He is in a perfect position to get royally .....

BTW I heard his speech in Sheikhupara, it sounded like he was sucking upto Zardari rather than any thing else. It would be interesting to see whether Jamaat-e-Islami will join his band wagon or not, will he do their bidding? will he ever be able to use his brain? i.e. if he has any?

As for his stance, thats all he has to hold on to, the real test will come later. I appreciate you not comparing him to Mush, I consider it a personal favor.

Through out my carrier I have worked in Private sector and there is one lesson that I have learned whether working with Seths or Gora&#039;s and that is, &quot;You can forgive and forego mistakes and to some extent negligence and give a second chance, but you never give second chances to dishonest thieves and hire / re-hire them&quot;. This is exactly what this nation has done and will pay for it dearly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mian jee owes quit a lot to a lot of people. He owes his sustanence to Saudi&#8217;s, who on Abba jees request took him in and later abducted him too. So what it is like when the prince gives him a call? Not ignoring the fact its the Saudi&#8217;s who played a major role in wrecking this country.</p>
<p>Never mind his collossal corruptness, lets say that he is sincere, but, what we do about his legendary stupidity, indecision, shaking legs and dumbness, haven&#8217;t you heard &quot;Nadaan dost se dana dushman behter hai&quot; (A wise enemy is better than stupid friend). One day he is with Khar, the other day with Qazi, then with BB and later with Aitzaz. Now he is patching up with Q-League and MQM. He is in a perfect position to get royally &#8230;..</p>
<p>BTW I heard his speech in Sheikhupara, it sounded like he was sucking upto Zardari rather than any thing else. It would be interesting to see whether Jamaat-e-Islami will join his band wagon or not, will he do their bidding? will he ever be able to use his brain? i.e. if he has any?</p>
<p>As for his stance, thats all he has to hold on to, the real test will come later. I appreciate you not comparing him to Mush, I consider it a personal favor.</p>
<p>Through out my carrier I have worked in Private sector and there is one lesson that I have learned whether working with Seths or Gora&#8217;s and that is, &quot;You can forgive and forego mistakes and to some extent negligence and give a second chance, but you never give second chances to dishonest thieves and hire / re-hire them&quot;. This is exactly what this nation has done and will pay for it dearly.</p>
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		<title>By: mozang bijjli</title>
		<link>http://lahore.metblogs.com/2009/02/25/lahorites-respond-vehemently/comment-page-1/#comment-12365</link>
		<dc:creator>mozang bijjli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lahore.metblogs.com/?p=3004#comment-12365</guid>
		<description>i stand by tperacha
mian was right, he had a stance from the beggining and he stood by it, unlike thalli ka baingan (zerdari) 
i stand by mian!!!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i stand by tperacha<br />
mian was right, he had a stance from the beggining and he stood by it, unlike thalli ka baingan (zerdari)<br />
i stand by mian!!!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: tperacha</title>
		<link>http://lahore.metblogs.com/2009/02/25/lahorites-respond-vehemently/comment-page-1/#comment-12364</link>
		<dc:creator>tperacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lahore.metblogs.com/?p=3004#comment-12364</guid>
		<description>@kaami -

i&#039;m sure that only capable administrator in your opinion the Pakistan ever had was Musharraf! so please don&#039;t get me started on him.

now to your question abt will Pakistan win? Yes, Nawaz may not be the most shrewd politician out there, but he certainly is sincere to this country. of the current lot that we have i see no better option than him so i hope that Punjab and the country at large will rally for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@kaami -</p>
<p>i&#8217;m sure that only capable administrator in your opinion the Pakistan ever had was Musharraf! so please don&#8217;t get me started on him.</p>
<p>now to your question abt will Pakistan win? Yes, Nawaz may not be the most shrewd politician out there, but he certainly is sincere to this country. of the current lot that we have i see no better option than him so i hope that Punjab and the country at large will rally for him.</p>
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		<title>By: kaami</title>
		<link>http://lahore.metblogs.com/2009/02/25/lahorites-respond-vehemently/comment-page-1/#comment-12363</link>
		<dc:creator>kaami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lahore.metblogs.com/?p=3004#comment-12363</guid>
		<description>And if we go by the 90&#039;s Sharif&#039;s might get power, if people come out in numbers they might win, but the question is will Pakistan win?

To be an Adminstrator you need certain skills, thats it. To be a leader you need wisdom, a vision, courage and determination. Do I see these qualities in the heavy mandated lot, no I dont. The fact is that Sharif&#039;s owe their return to BB, owe their decision to participate in election to BB and owe marks on their kicked a.. to shrewed Zardari. 

I do see HEAVY mandate but thats all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if we go by the 90&#8242;s Sharif&#8217;s might get power, if people come out in numbers they might win, but the question is will Pakistan win?</p>
<p>To be an Adminstrator you need certain skills, thats it. To be a leader you need wisdom, a vision, courage and determination. Do I see these qualities in the heavy mandated lot, no I dont. The fact is that Sharif&#8217;s owe their return to BB, owe their decision to participate in election to BB and owe marks on their kicked a.. to shrewed Zardari. </p>
<p>I do see HEAVY mandate but thats all.</p>
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		<title>By: kaami</title>
		<link>http://lahore.metblogs.com/2009/02/25/lahorites-respond-vehemently/comment-page-1/#comment-12362</link>
		<dc:creator>kaami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lahore.metblogs.com/?p=3004#comment-12362</guid>
		<description>@tperacha
So now we have the familiar nonsense by useless, corrupt and incompetant leaders supported by heavy mandates of a foolish nation.

Good luck my friend!

BTW to disloge a govt by protest they need crowds in access of 100,000 to turn up repeatedly as was the case in 1977 when Bhutto Sr. was dislodged. 5,000, 10,000 can only create a niusance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tperacha<br />
So now we have the familiar nonsense by useless, corrupt and incompetant leaders supported by heavy mandates of a foolish nation.</p>
<p>Good luck my friend!</p>
<p>BTW to disloge a govt by protest they need crowds in access of 100,000 to turn up repeatedly as was the case in 1977 when Bhutto Sr. was dislodged. 5,000, 10,000 can only create a niusance.</p>
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		<title>By: tperacha</title>
		<link>http://lahore.metblogs.com/2009/02/25/lahorites-respond-vehemently/comment-page-1/#comment-12361</link>
		<dc:creator>tperacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lahore.metblogs.com/?p=3004#comment-12361</guid>
		<description>this is hilarious...so i guess the 5,000 who turned up to protest today were also emotionally charges nobodies???? http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090226/wl_sthasia_afp/pakistanpolitics_20090226165742

The Sharif brothers enjoy a heavy mandate in Punjab and lets just accept it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is hilarious&#8230;so i guess the 5,000 who turned up to protest today were also emotionally charges nobodies???? <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090226/wl_sthasia_afp/pakistanpolitics_20090226165742" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090226/wl_sthasia_afp/pakistanpolitics_20090226165742</a></p>
<p>The Sharif brothers enjoy a heavy mandate in Punjab and lets just accept it.</p>
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		<title>By: crazymonkey</title>
		<link>http://lahore.metblogs.com/2009/02/25/lahorites-respond-vehemently/comment-page-1/#comment-12360</link>
		<dc:creator>crazymonkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lahore.metblogs.com/?p=3004#comment-12360</guid>
		<description>@ dare2dv8

Sir, I agree with you very whole heartedly. These are all emotionally charged nobodies with dysfunctionaly families. They have no purpose in their lives but to cause chaos and confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ dare2dv8</p>
<p>Sir, I agree with you very whole heartedly. These are all emotionally charged nobodies with dysfunctionaly families. They have no purpose in their lives but to cause chaos and confusion.</p>
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